usfs helicopter rates

- R1 Overdue/Missing Aircraft Protocol, DOI National Interagency Fire Center Southern Area Master Interagency Agreement. Office: (208) 387-5231 Mobile: (208) 991-7639, Larry Robillard,Contracting Officer Thank youfor taking the time to tell us how we're doing! You have to love the obvious FS sycophants on here making contemptuous, defensive and specious arguments. Bill has been at this for a long time and has always been a fair arbiter of the facts. The US Forest Service's Aerial Firefighting Helicopters 0000000923 00000 n Office: (208) 387-5670 Mobile: (208) 616-5547 Doing business with the feds is not for the faint of heart. N/A = Not applicable Organizations needing assistance are numerous. Although I dont know if this counts as a legacy platform. United States Department of Agriculture-Forest Service Guide . =Wd{,,}[bx`3j2Fyyn y } They essentially want a Sky Crane to do a Jet Rangers job. Lots more. Helicopter Rental Rates Helicopter Rental Rates 2023.docx/Jaz F (Prot) Page 1 February 2023 Operator Information Company Name: Address: Day Phone #: Taxpayer Identification #: . Base model costs 50k where does the rest go??? Thanks for giving us a voice. This amounts to budget dollars that would have to be tied to each individual contract and could not be utilized anywhere else. Large Jet Transport It seems nothing is making sense anymore, and we are destined to fail if this shortsightedness is allowed to continue. Forest Service Aviation Management. 0000047667 00000 n Aircraft types: P2V, HC-130H, BAe-146, MD-87, C-130Q, RJ85, C-130 H & J equipped with Modular Airborne Fire Fighting Systems (MAFFS). Personnel and Equipment: 219 total personnel; 2 helicopters, 14 Type-6 engines, 13 Type-2 tractor plow units, 1 drone, . They never seem to be logical ! But only when they decide, of course! NIFC is home to the national fire management programs of each federal fire agency, along with partners including the National Association of State Foresters, the U.S. Fire Administration, and the National Weather Service. Sadly, this is just another reason why operators will have to get out of the fire fighting business or send the aircraft to other countries where they will actually be treated like the critical assets that they are. SD3-60 Sherpas;Avionics; Maintenance They simply never had to deal with these considerations. to Air Missions (NOTAMS), Para But look on the bright side the SMEs will feel like they are back in the military! The A-10 is built to be highly survivable and can takeoff and land in locations near the front lines. All water tenders and engine types 3 through 6 shall be able to prime and pump water from a 10 foot lift. Nevertheless, the aviation branch of the US Forest Service is often seen as a versatile administration, without any long-term vision, with abrupt and sometimes difficult to understand decisions and against which innumerable legal proceedings and even lawsuits are brought by its subcontractors and those who are in line to become one. The companies willing to make adjustments will do just that and end up with contracts. Welcome to the Nation's Logistical Support Center | National . A .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. Incident Contacts . Helicopters | National Interagency Fire Center What happens when they implement it towards Type Is? The difference is there are very few air tankers compared to helicopters on EU and CWN contracts. Great to see that ole S-58T N1168U workhorse from Aris is still getting after it! To put things in perspective, these aircraft perform interventions against US fires which CL-415 water bombers perform at home. When the SMEs include pilots who had a previous career in the military, also Aviation Maintenance Inspectors who previously worked as mechanics in industry and the military, I do not think the label of career beaurocrart quite fits. The Q&A period is a nicety, but rarely ever provides valuable responses to industry. For the 2018 season, the UFS had at its disposal, in addition to its planes, 105 helicopters under exclusive contracts and about 200 others under CWN agreements. Type 2 helicopters are very effective initial attack resources. Forest Service makes major changes in helicopter contracts Next Generation Multi-Engine Fixed-Wing Airtankers 3.0 If the income is lower and lower due to LPTA and the job security is year to year with no guarantee, most lenders will tell you to try another house to mortgage your house. Oh, and dont glance over the cockpit camera, which they want even on restricted category bucket ships. @RtS1yD &LS,60E0U22U0J7gm:b|gY. Aerial SupervisionModule(Lead Planes) 3833 S. Development Avenue The FS is certainly aware of Mr. Gabbert who has reached out to public affairs folks within the agency on numerous occasions. Agency Abbreviation. There are certainly concerns with moving to a twin engine platform related to performance, and Im not currently versed enough in all of the platforms to have an opinion, but I do know that this article doesnt address it and instead seems to be a sounding board for industry without presenting the case for increased firefighter safety and performance in modern aircraft. Say goodbye to the 205 and 212, its brand new 412EPXs or nothing. These changes are going to put operators who have worked hard for generations, who have tirelessly jumped through USFS hoops for years out of businessthat is a crappy government thanks, with costly and unnecessary changes as the final slap in the face! The Chinooks were mainly operated with a Bambi Bucket but three companies, Helimax, Columbia Helicopters and Billings, now use internal bunkers developed by subcontractors, including Simplex, a well-known manufacturer of HBE kits, which allows these aircraft to have a higher intervention speed while taking up to 12,000 liters of water internally. A minimum of 100 gallons of extinguishing products, water or retardant, must be able to be conveyed by these machines. The Cal Fire owns a fleet of UH-1 Huey, rigged with Bambis or HBE Simplex Kits, depending on the geographic areas they must cover. qG4f2v$dlP^~nyH6JQ[c~x(-lCA;r:\00v40pt00 ) -: But they wont tell us when they are doing that, just that as we bid on EU work within the CWN contract eventually they are going to want modern helicopters. No wonder there is absolutely no concern about the financial impact of this proposal. MSH confirms additional launch customer in Norway. Each year, DNR works ahead of the fire season to improve its access to professional equipment and services for fire suppression. Try to pass on the cost of newer, more expensive equipment in less than 10 years, than the operator fails on the LPTA front b/c his day rate will be too high. Must be annually certified by the local host unit agency administrator or designee prior to being made available for assignment. And they are cheap azzs that wont pay much for anything. 0000001945 00000 n National Pilots The biggest issue overall is that this contract is a prerequisite for our other federal and state work such as state fire and wildlife survey, etc. Thats discouraging as it suggests that the customer really isnt listening and just providing the perception of doing so.your point of just not choosing to submit if an operator doesnt like it is incredibly insensitive and uninformed. Forest fire contracts are also an economic windfall for operators and manufacturers, yet they are a tiny portion of the $ 3 billion that the fight against forest fires cost in 2017! United States Department of the Interior (DOI) Office of Aviation Services (OAS) and the . They are versatile fire management tools. We can only hope the upcoming DOI on-call helicopter RFP due out later this year isnt so crazy. Fire managers recognized the value of helicopters to rapidly transport personnel and cargo to a fire, especially in remote locations. The Call When Needed (CWN) Parent Contract is a 1 year with 9 option years contract, with Exclusive Use (EU) contracts being bid *through* the parent contract for 1 year with four option years. Us | Site Mulcher / Masticator - Boom Mounted Checklist, U.S. Forest Service, Contracting So given these facts, what do you think they are trying to achieve in ultimately reducing the number of a/c in a time when we need more of them? USFS awards 90-day contracts for 22 additional helicopters Bill Gabbert May 13, 2020 Contracting, Helicopters contract The U.S. Forest Service has awarded 90-day contracts for an 22 additional helicopters that can lift at least 3,300 or 7,000 pounds. Smokejumper Aircraft It has been lightly edited. For point-to-point flights, AFF flight following may be used as well. I can see daily availability rates sky rocketing, which it sounds like is expected. For aircraft in the first two categories, fire-fighting equipment consists of efficient and versatile ventral kits or a Bambi Bucket. CWN aircraft, both fixed and rotor wing, cost more than exclusive use ships. Aircraft carded by USFS/OAS? USFS R8 / USFWS R4 Annual Operating Plan for the use of the AS350B2 Helicopter. That means NO helitack, NO rappelers, ONLY flight crew and bucket work. Thats what happens when non-aviation people get put it charge of aviation programs. PDF 2016 Standard Cost Components Just like how the new GM Suburban for Diplomates costs millions of dollars each and the contract went to the one company that can make it. Each rate covers all costs eligible under the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. Furthermore the numbers they provide are usually . All the UTFs for rotors can get name-tied back to a few individuals at NIFC. 2. Given the current climate of helicopter contracts there will be more people getting out of helicopters than getting into them. CO Support on all major contract programs (Mobile Food Services, Mobile Showers, Type 2 & 2-IA Crews, Retardant Chemicals), Contractor Performance Assessment Reporting System (CPARS) Alternate Focal Point Initial attack/can be broken up into squads, fireline construction, complex firing operations (backfire). 10 0 obj <> endobj To request access to this page, submit request to FS-FS AQM ISB. Apart from a few military helicopters mobilized occasionally and only as reinforcement, most of the air assets used to fight fires in the US are the work of countless more or less specialized aerial work companies, who each have very varied means. Budget Coordinator Several vendors opted for EU contracts with states instead of the USFS. If a vendor doesnt like the requirements, they can choose not to submit a proposal. Contact Us: NWCG Comments & Questions | USA.GOV | Notices | Accessibility | Copyrights | Linking Policy | Records Management | FAQs. Us, Northern Rockies Coordination A quick peruse through that Q&A shows that dozens of operators really gasped when this RFP came out. Calfire is seeing right now how much NOT an upgrade they really are and how they are just too big for some things. Todd thanks for chiming in. 5765 West Broadway, Missoula, Montana 59808-9361, Automated These helicopters can support firefighters on the ground by delivering up to 300 gallons of water to thefirelinein a bucket or tank. . Aircraft Maintenance Contracts, Regions 1,5,6 Personnel shall meet the qualification requirements of. The USFS did not get the number of LATs they assumed they would, I know it shocked them. Forest Service says there's not enough time to issue new helicopter Aviation for Regions 3,4,6,8 This draft RFP is such a massive and violent change from what has been requested in previous contracts that most operators arent going to be able to handle it. Unmanned Aerial Supervision(UAS) Program, Delphine Arizana, Contract Specialist I do not know of any small operators who can afford to buy new ships, if any are even available. Sucks that theyre limiting their choices on the RFP. Most aircraft manufacturers provide a document illustrating the operating costs for each of their models but it's hard to tell how accurate their estimates are (they are trying to sell you a helicopter after all). Official websites use .gov 0000007535 00000 n Aye, Laddie. And the hits just keep on coming. Bill do you have access to USFS decision makers? Oh and theres a reason for the price difference, all the vendors you see with blackhawks have restricted category aircraft. There is obviously some back door dealing going on with this RFP as it very specifically pushes money to certain equipment providers and tips the hat to certain helicopter companies. Mission: Designed to carry out close-air support at low altitude and low speed. Type 3 engines and tactical water tenders shall be equipped with a foam proportioner system. I dont know if there is another 1960s Choctaw still flying fire! Helicopters conducting mission flights shall check-in prior to and immediately after each takeoff/landing, as soon as communications can be established, per the NWCG Standards for Helicopter Operations (PMS 510) Chapter 04, page 30. If as you suggest they can choose to not submit a proposal then two things are going to happen: 1) that aircraft will not be part of the AFF fleet next year and 2) you will have less a/c in the future b/c of it. Office: (208) 387-5695 Mobile: (208) 860-7334 Here is what they wrote. (Y/N - if "Y" add expiration date on card) 6. Boise, Idaho 83705-5354 Modular AirborneFirefighting System (MAFFS) Mechanics Aircraft Engineering Services FS. Type IIs? <<0B6C55EEACE9564A8C1EB025C5E90DF9>]>> Avian Aviation Biologist. There are two kinds of USFS contracts. All perpetuated by the Gov. So do we get balanced journalism here. PDF Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the and the Subject I also assume that the CO just channeled the PM and HSs needs for the program. 0000001330 00000 n The most spectacular heavy-duty helicopters have long been the Erickson AirCrane, the CH-54 refurbished by the Oregon-based company that has developed for them a constant-rate and controlled-release airdrop that is considered one of the most efficient and reliable. As I indicated, Im very interested in more reporting on this from the customer side of the table, IE the USFS as well as industry. 0 DOI Incident Position Qualification Guide (IPQG) AABI. Montana / Dakotas Fire and Aviation, NRCC PDF Office of The Under Secretary of Defense The day started at 10 a.m. around a truck bed fully stocked with boxes of discount croissants, a bag of clementines, and a stack of Incident Action Plan packets. How Much It Costs to Fly America's Military Planes for an Hour 0000002454 00000 n Well, maybe in some locations. Toggle Dyslexia-friendly black-on-creme color scheme, Aerial wildland fire training taking place this week at Channel Islands Air National Guard Station, Military aircraft equipped with MAFFS mobilized to assist with wildfire suppression efforts, First Annual National Wildland Firefighter Day Announced, BLM and Maverik Partner to Reduce Human-Caused Wildfires, Aerial wildland fire training taking place in Boise april 25-29, Andrus Center for Public Policy and Partners Seek National Student Congress Address Wildland Fire Management, National Interagency Incident Communications Division, National Incident Management Organization. This second list was released by the agency May 13 and is a result of a solicitation requesting bidsfor 30 helicopters that were already on Call When Needed contracts in three tiers capable of lifting up to 1,600, 3,300, or 7,000 pounds. Under contract this season there are 28 heavyweights, including Kaman KMax, CH-46, CH-47, S-70, CH-54 and S-61 from a dozen companies. Its coming, and sooner than you expect. A Department of Defense liaison was added as a permanent partner at NIFC in 2008. I think you answered your own question with why are they only replacing type II and III legacy platforms and not type I? The Blackhawk wont work because they are restricted category. Guess what those choppers wont have cockpit cameras or loudspeakers or TAS. What replaces the 212? Center Besides the cost for the new equipment will be passed on the FS through the increase in Daily Availability rates. FEDERAL WILDLAND FIRE MANAGEMENT POLICY & DOCTRINE OVERVIEW CHAPTER 1 Release Date: January 2020 1 1 Chapter 1 2 Federal Wildland Fire Management Policy and Doctrine 3 Overview 4 Scope 5 The Interagency Standards for Fire and Fire Aviation Operations states, 6 references, or supplements policy for Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Forest 7 Service, U.S. Uzbekistan: a discreet but powerful air force. The U.S. Forest Service has awarded 90-day contracts for an 22 additional helicopters that can lift at least 3,300 or 7,000 pounds. Try to pass on the cost of newer more expensive equipment in less than 10 years than the operators fails on the LPTA front. 0000001234 00000 n startxref Flight Following (AFF), FlightAware Farm planes that can carry a ton of retardant to the Boeing 747 Supertanker and 75 tons of load, anything that can drop on a fire was mobilized to fight monsters like the fire of the Mendocino Complex that devoured more than 150 000 ha in a month and a half. Maybe all of the experienced aviation folks you mention are part of this have never actually had to buy a multi-million a/c, maintain it, crew it and ensure that its operable? Unfortunately your assumption is incorrect, the program manager has several years experience in aviation operations and the Helicopter Specialist is one of the best around and also has several years of experience. Airtankers For example they get 4 hours of flight pay whether they fly 0 or 3.8. They may also be federal agencies such as Indian Affairs or the Bureau of Land Management, who are responsible for natural areas that must be fought against forest fires. They will tell you they have their smerfs.SMEs ( who typically are cradle to grave beuracrats as well), who are supposedly dialed in on the subject matter surerightlmao For aircraft in the first two categories, fire-fighting equipment consists of efficient and versatile ventral kits . hb```, cb YL No.thats what happens when you have cradle to grave beuracrats (who havnt a clue about running a business) in charge of doling out federal dollars. Perhaps thats the point: There are available alternatives on the market that can replace the legacy platforms for type II and III, so we should continue upgrading the fleet as we can. The banker looks at your household income and job stability. I know we arent alone in how upset we are with the Forest Service right now. Ignoring the facts of what that aircraft can actually carry, not what the vendor claims. Little to no way to sock away money for these required upgrades to bid on the contract. We are all for the push for better equipment for our wildland fire efforts but the USFS cant do the change this suddenly and without any industry input. Nope. 43 aircraft are under exclusive contract with the USFS in 2018. Access to the U.S. Forest Service Contracting, Incident Support Branch, DOI SharePoint Page must be granted individually. Fire Cacheis asupply of fire tools and equipment assembled in planned quantities or standard units at a strategic point for exclusive use in fire suppression. Once we get all of that figured out, turns out that the increase in performance specifications at 7,000 / 30C combined with the added equipment pretty much eliminates legacy ships from meeting performance requirements. With the twin engine requirement would a K-Max also be DQd? Video of two Type 1 helicopters reloading with retardant, 41 Companies on $1B Forest Service Helicopter Support Contract, Updates on Nob Fire and WatchDuty is looking for help, North Carolina: Great Lakes Fire burning in footprint of 2012 fire. Let the operators upgrade when if/it will work. Your last sentence in the nail in the coffin.seeing as that this contract will be LPTA and a year to year option, how do you finance a new a/c that will surely be $2-$4M on the low end? The "All Other" annual billable rate will be used to obtain reimbursement for services provided to organizations outside the Federal government. i digress. 553 0 obj <>stream PDF Fillable Forms must be downloaded to your computer, you can then open them up in your Adobe Reader or Adobe Acrobat software to fill them in and save. 0000000716 00000 n When determining the hourly rate, agencies should utilize the appropriate rate category. Single Engine Airtankers (SEATs), Helicopters, Fixed Wing. 0000005493 00000 n Yes, the customer is the FS. We operate Type III helicopters and are now faced with 40lbs+ of equipment (costing over $60k per aircraft) to meet minimum requirements - things that we really don't need like a Traffic Avoidance System (but the ADS-B they required last year isn't good enough) and a loudspeaker (because yelling at the fire helps? Calculator, GPS flight plans shall monitor Air Guard. Aero Flite, Aero Air, and Neptune all swapped out some EU aircraft but each still has the same number of allocated slots. Horsepower rating taken at the flywheel with all the engine accessories installed not counting transmission losses or anything after the flywheel. USFS awards 90-day contracts for 22 additional helicopters Does a 407 not meet the new requirements? Region 6 Cache Freight Services Southern Area Coordination Center Operating Plan. U.S. Forest Service employees (Forest Service Internal Link), U.S. Department of Interior (DOI Internal Link). Designed by Elegant Themes | Powered by WordPress, Guide to customs clearance for a Helvetian aircraft, Bell unveils industrialists on the Invictus program. As a former helitacker I know we were always looking forward to moving to a more modern helicopter fleet. What light twin replaces a 407? Maybe they could have figured out a better transition, maybe not. *Manufacturers published rated net horsepower (HP). Some Type 1 helicopters can also transport up to 15 personnel to an incident. four user categories rates: Other DoD, Other Federal, Foreign Military Sales, and All Other. The table below shows NWCG minimum performance requirements for water tenders. Some of these aircraft are even qualified for night dropping, a capacity which is now rare but which could revolutionize the art of fighting fires. We operate Type III helicopters and are now faced with 40lbs+ of equipment (costing over $60k per aircraft) to meet minimum requirements things that we really dont need like a Traffic Avoidance System (but the ADS-B they required last year isnt good enough) and a loudspeaker (because yelling at the fire helps?).
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