piper cheyenne 400ls problems

Studying the Pilot's manual We knew they were coming and prepared for them. Two 30 volt, 200 ampere, D.C. starter/generators in parallel provide torque for engine starting and generate D.C. electrical power. This helps to maintain the engines on an on-condition basis. My retirement account is a shadow of its former self. Thats a recipe for a bad accident rate. For an aging airplane, the Cheyennes have remarkably few major maintenance problems or airworthiness directives. H|T{PTWesWwFM}j( * The contenders are the Piper Meridian, the jet-prop and the TBM. Although becoming an Earth-rounder has been postponed by the COVID-19 crisis, we are looking forward to completing the mission in a post-pandemic world. The majority of the Cheyenne 400LS aircraft were fitted with nine seats, including a potty seat that can be completely enclosed by an accordion door neatly hidden in its furniture cabinet. trailer I just happened on this article. Pratt & Whitney and several of the companies that specialize in PT6 maintenance have field service reps who would be delighted to get you started on your support education. Within our first year of ownership, my wife and I traveled to Bermuda, multiple Caribbean locations, and a 1,400-nm nonstop from Aspen, Colorado to Leesburg, Virginia. Hb```f``Ib`e``bg@ ~6 x,2{q/l&EG%4-6_2FbTo`m7?$ L^'@dXD&'imi^;P w&8,% > endobj 20 0 obj << /ProcSet [ /PDF /Text ] /Font << /F2 45 0 R /F3 25 0 R /F4 22 0 R /F6 29 0 R >> /ExtGState << /GS1 50 0 R >> >> endobj 21 0 obj << /Type /FontDescriptor /Ascent 723 /CapHeight 713 /Descent -262 /Flags 70 /FontBBox [ -202 -288 1146 962 ] /FontName /HDBFEK+JansonText-Italic /ItalicAngle -15 /StemV 77 /XHeight 448 /CharSet (/l/u/m/C/w/o/d/c/comma/y/p/a/e/four/S/hyphen/g/f/n/A/period/r/space/h/qu\ oteright/s/i/L/t/zero) /FontFile3 23 0 R >> endobj 22 0 obj << /Type /Font /Subtype /Type1 /FirstChar 1 /LastChar 30 /Widths [ 259 685 315 667 389 389 296 444 259 407 519 519 463 278 296 259 463 500 370 407 315 463 778 667 519 519 611 556 259 259 ] /Encoding 26 0 R /BaseFont /HDBFEK+JansonText-Italic /FontDescriptor 21 0 R /ToUnicode 27 0 R >> endobj 23 0 obj << /Filter /FlateDecode /Length 3744 /Subtype /Type1C >> stream 0000022600 00000 n It has a 98% dispatch reliability and its cabin is quieter than a King Air. The fuselage is limited to a 15,000-hour life, while the wing and empennage have 20,000-hour life limits.[3]. PDF Piper PA-42-1000 - McFarlane Aviation The PIPER Cheyenne II, manufactured from 1974-1983, requires a 2 person crew and can transport up to 5 passengers. Gear Up: Time to Pay for the Piper - FLYING Magazine The Piper Cheyenne 400LS, PA-42-1000 is the final development and improvement of the venerable Cheyenne line of twin turboprop business aircraft. Corrosion of the airframe has been rare, thanks to Pipers use of extensive anti-corrosion treatments and epoxy primers. AIRFRAME Total Time: 3319 ENGINES 1719 Hrs Since Hot Sections 60 hrs remaining until 100 hr inspection PROPELLERS: Total Hours: 166 Two 1650 hp Turboprops (MT five bladed Scimitar Propellers) EXTERIOR Done in 2008 White w/Three Dark Green Stripes INTERIOR Six (6) Passenger Executive Configuration Air Conditioning: P3 Air Turbine Aft Lav 0000068334 00000 n Aircraft of comparable role, configuration, and era. 0000296378 00000 n Electrical wiring, especially connectors and even some fuses, were a nightmare to troubleshoot because each one was a bit different and many junctions were in hard to reach parts of the airframe. Rotol propellers (whose diameter is the same as the chassis length of a Same for the props. The Cessna Citation became the economical jet of choice for business travel. Some pilots referred to the narrow windshield of the Cheyenne and P Navajo as a tank slit. straining to move forwards. The Cheyenne became the Cheyenne II. Then, in 1984, the Cheyenne 400LS was born the queen of the Piper Aircraft fleet. complete we lined up on Lanseria's runway 06. 1970, the then Cessna Chairman, Dwane Wallace, bet the future of the Taking your Cheyenne to just any good technician could result in missing one or more procedures. The 400LS provides its owner with jet-like climb and cruise performance, along with turboprop efficiency and the ability to use numerous smaller airports that the jets cant. While there still was much to be done, the improvements were credible and very apparent. The airplane has two imposing TPE331-14 engines, each capable of producing 1,600+ SHP de-rated to 1,000 HP at its five-bladed MT propellers. We have a former MU2 owner on this forum. by a remarkable 60 knots to well over 400 knots. You've disabled cookies in your web browser. I test flew two Cheyenne 400LSs and loved them. The airplane is approved for day and night VFR/IFR operations when equipped in accordance with F.A.R. The problem is this: At the top of a phugoid cycle, the angle of attack is high, and the SAS pulls forward on the yoke. In one of the other forums, someone was asking about classic Lears vs Falcon 10. The potential danger is obvious. 0000002793 00000 n But, what exactly was wrong with the original airplane? My usual response is to change the subject and make her a martini. I flew the 400LS for a spell. The fuel system can be monitored through several gauges on the instrument panel through a dual needle type fuel quantity indicator, two fuel flow gauges, and two fuel pressure gauges. I find this overhaul prospect both financially frightening and, in another sense, slightly ironic. Your email address will not be published. Physical dimensions are the same as the PA-31T except that the basic airplane wingspan is two feet shorter (40 feet, 8 inches versus 42 feet, 8 inches) because in standard form it does not have tip tanks (although most purchasers opted for them). This vane on the earlier models tended to freeze up and sound a warning, which caused some pilots to try to disable the system. apart from improving ground clearance, will increase the maximum speed ADCAAAv3X23,ft0>!A ,/dtD'0` lC$hPgso25M```-'AAy6cl 33f\5Q[7nlSzRNL`@%#K .2, Y7o It is noteworthy that there have been few reported problems with corrosion. The PA-42 Cheyenne is a larger development of the earlier PA-31T Cheyennes I and II (which are, in turn, turboprop developments of the PA-31 Navajo). These introduce artificial pitch forces at the yoke to counteract PIO or over controlling tendencies. More powerful and faster airliner development of PA-42-720 Cheyenne 3. They should be in maintenance costs, as well, so long as they are properly operated and maintained. Its power-to-weight ratio of 6 lbs/hp allows for a climb rate of 3,200 feet per minute and a cruise speed of 350 knots. Wing-tip fuel tanks were standard with this airplane, and so were redesigned engine air intakes and elongated exhaust stacks. Find N47ZG 1986 PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS on Aircraft.com. Cheyenne 400LS PA 42 1000 for Sale - Globalair.com The McCauley Accessory Division of Cessna offers a propeller conversion kit that-according to the company-reduces interior noise and improves performance. Some people think the Cheyenne I is a better airplane because it has no SAS system. One of the most annoying characteristics of the Cheyenne is caused by the aileron/rudder interconnect. The courses offered by outfits such as FlightSafety International and SimCom, which include extensive classroom and simulator time, are excellent for obtaining and maintaining Cheyenne proficiency. This equates to six adults and 250 pounds of luggage. Most are outfitted with nine seats, including the pilot. The aircraft is not the easiest to keep straight on the centre line. The PA-31T requires more of pilots than the -31T1 or -31T2 in terms of systems knowledge, planning and in-flight management. Significant improvements were made throughout the product line in terms of maintainability, rational human factors-oriented redesign and in overall quality. A total of 81 IIXLs were sold. Gear and flap speeds are sufficiently high to fit in to a wide range of traffic situations. My first instinct was to check the autopilot wasn't on. Get extra lift from AOPA. The first production Cheyenne III flew for the first time on May 18, 1979, and FAA certification was granted in early 1980. It sprouted the now-typical wing tip fuel tanks, PT6A-28 engines flat rated to 620 SHP and a redesigned flight control system that included a stability augmentation system (SAS) that became an item of major controversy and a blot on the reputation of the entire series. Pressurization was increased to 7.6psi (0.52bar) to elevate its ceiling from 35,000 to 41,000ft (10,700 to 12,500m) while maintaining a 10,000ft (3,000m) cabin. Learn how your comment data is processed. The cabin is fine for three or four passengers even on longer flights, especially with the club seating arrangement. Of the original 44 aircraft, just over 20 are believed to be flying in the United States today. launched with a pair of Pratt & Whitney PT6A-41 engines, was supposed to Magginetti mentions cabin heaters, torque indicating systems and the PA-31Ts SAS as systems that require higher than average attention. The Cheyenne IIXL (PA-31T2) was certified in 1981. had the aircraft off the runway and heading up at an amazing rate of climb. You've disabled JavaScript in your web browser. The toughest aspect of maneuvering in the traffic pattern in pre-1980 Cheyennes is the restricted visibility. We are not well pleased with the parts availability. An angle of attack sensor on the right side of the nose measures and transmits angle of attack to a simple computer which commands a servo to vary downspring tension. The 106in (2.7m) Dowty Rotol propellers had four round-tip composite blades and 8in (20cm) of ground clearance. The start sequence is fully automated. The Piper PA-42 Cheyenne is a turboprop aircraft built by Piper Aircraft. The eighth seat sits partly in front of the door and partly in the rear cabin baggage compartment. Compared to the I, these engine improvements gave the IA up to 12 more knots at the IAs service ceiling of 29,000 feet and about 6 knots at maximum cruise power and 12,000 feet. I would have had to maintain it, and I dont enjoy the thought of that. A true performer (Single Pilot) that resembles Jet Performace for half of the fuel burn and operational cost. 0000094113 00000 n Here is one more: if you dont have the time and money to spend on learning what is required and then doing it, stick to your local rent-a-wreck for your aviating needs. First flight of this proof-of-concept airplane occurred in the spring of 1967. 0000069142 00000 n This line of thinking has prompted another round of endless cerebration. 0000013531 00000 n However, the plane can be flown correctly and safely, and is a fine performer. The PIPER Cheyenne II has a 3,705' balanced field length and 2,482' landing distance. However, like the archetypal nerd in an action movie, The Cheyenne IA was introduced in 1983. Its power-to-weight ratio of 6 lbs/hp allows for a climb rate of 3,200 feet per minute and a cruise speed of 350 knots. As a result, the aircraft can travel more than 2,000 nm in a long-range cruise. Its maximum speed at optimum altitude is advertised as 283 KTAS, and it has range-verses-payload numbers very comparable to the King Airs. Of course, you usually need both at the same time. Its a pretty unique airplane. This is the only COMPLETE (RVSM,FULL PAID MSP) AVAILABLE! Accidents The two most notorious Cheyenne accidents were original PA-31Ts involving longitudinal control-the much maligned SAS system. 0000042281 00000 n 0000147953 00000 n What could. It also was the end of production of the PA-31T series, although production was planned to be restarted in Lakeland for the IA and IIXL. Wind Written by Twin and Turbine Magazine Insulation and trim was changed to increase finished interior dimensions. On the other hand, we were totally unprepared for the $4,000 annunciator-panel repair, the frequent heater and air-conditioner repairs and the little valve that controls the bleed air pressure to. There is The 400LS is the only twin-engine turboprop that can outperform single and twin-engine civilian turbine and light jets in door to door speed and piston twins in efficiency for a given payload. Many products featured on this site were editorially chosen. The King Air models did not win the speed race but won big on their luxurious interiors and ramp presence. Merlin IIIb vs Piper Cheyenne 3 or 400LS | Pilots of America 0000013013 00000 n Even though there is an emergency backup to the SAS (a compressed air cylinder that imposes maximum nose-down force on the downspring), SAS is a no-go item on the PA-31T. Or both. The system met the letter of FAA certification requirements in terms of achieving stick-free longitudinal stability but it did nothing for, and possibly aggravated, long-period phugoid divergence (in something approaching English, if pitch input moves the aircraft away from its trim airspeed, it tends to accelerate quickly in that direction, then recover abruptly [pull up or push over] with the divergence increasing with each cycle). has contracted with Isaacman Associates. As a day-to-day business airplane, the 400LS is a fast and quiet airplane with an impressive cabin pressurization differential of 7.6 psi, providing a 10,000-foot cabin at FL410. Perhaps this is because we came out of a 602P Aerostar with a multiplicity of problems and had experienced every in-flight emergency possible with it. The Cheyenne I, with 189 sales formed a solid niche but was no match for the IIs impressive sales record of 343 airplanes. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Required fields are marked *. HUMo@W19t]TYjP &1=HR HucfsO%pH/PKI-Ac@UMVpV" euht/V.:zM#5&&N3Degj\_4%:!8OPqbU:~077fa@" Y outrageous or brilliant or both. Today, the 400LS averages a purchase price under $1 million, with total fixed and variable hourly operating expenses of $1,500. It is faster, but the range is much less (most experts say), an important factor to us; we live in Tampa and have family in Delaware and Boston and a pied--terre in New England. But take a high-performance turboprop twin at a bargain-basement price, add a macho pilot with limited experience and training, then toss in an engine failure, IFR weather, or any kind of distraction. I have also been looking at the commander 1000/900. Pratt & Whitney of Canada PT6 engines power all but the 400LS, which uses Garrett (now Allied Signal Engines) TPE-331s. 0000093767 00000 n On the longitudinal axis, bobweights and downsprings are the most common. In 1975, he acknowledged many shortcomings and promised major improvements would take place in quality control and customer support. The 400LS has the Cheyenne III airframe but is powered by counter-rotating 1,000 shp Honeywell TPE331-14 engines with four-blade propellers.The cabin normally accommodates two crew plus six passengers with a rear restroom or seventh seat. Most type-specific ADs apply to the original Cheyenne with the I/IA, not surprisingly, running second. Mike and Bill are known advisors, and they arent selling me anything, so I feel at home with their advice. The Cheyenne 400LS is the largest and most powerful of Piper's turboprop twins, derived from the PA-31 Navajo. A further, operational change was mandated for the PA-31T when Piper applied to increase the maximum operating altitude from 29,000 to 31,000 feet. Some of the original Cheyenne tooling was lost and this limits Piper's ability to fabricate replacement parts. 0000092671 00000 n With the post start checks complete, it was apparent the engines produce a 0000002116 00000 n For ninety-five percent of the time the The available power of 620 SHP is too much for the configuration of the Cheyenne with loading toward the aft range. It takes just a few minutes to climb to the flight levels and the speed/economy gains at those altitudes make it worthwhile. Environmental systems, including the cabin blower, heater and air conditioning, fuel systems-including fuel line chafing, landing gear and horizontal stabilizer/elevator were the elements causing the most frequent reports. The greater the speed displacement, the heavier the pull. At the same time, the original Cheyenne was renamed the Cheyenne II. Piper Cheyenne 400LS Specifications - Jet Av cut-off buttons should the temperatures exceed the 820 limit. Changes Many elements of the first Cheyenne fit the Mickey Mouse appellation that was applied to all Piper airplanes. There is little or nothing to attribute to the PA-31T design in these accidents. The only barricade between me and accomplishment of such grown-up activities is the fact that I love our Cheyenne. Other factors contributed to this, foremost among them a battle for control of the company that began in 1969 and that was not resolved until 1977 and the flood that devastated the Lock Haven plant. Powerplant | (2) 1,000-shp Honeywell TPE-331-14, Takeoff distance over 50-ft obstacle | 2,325 ft, Landing distance over 50-ft obstacle | 2,317 ft. Get extra lift from AOPA. Aircraft.com is the leading registry for planes, jets, and helicopters. compresses and clearance decreases. The massive Dowty-Rotol composite propellers are expensive and have only eight inches of ground clearance, leading to erosion problems. The resulting aircraft included the Cheyenne I (500 SHP engine to eliminate the troublesome stick shaker), Cheyenne II (620 SHP PT6s and a stick shaker), Cheyenne IIXL (750 SHP PT6s de-rated to 620 SHP and 18-inch longer fuselage), and Cheyenne III and IIIA (720 SHP PT6A-41s and -61s, nine seats and a T-tail). 0000003996 00000 n 0 Piper Cheyenne III & IIIA | Business Jet Traveler Maybe we should get another airplane. This is an invitation to disaster, because it can easily put weight too far aft. Swearingen to develop the Twin Comanche. Today, my wife and I are the proud owners of N7222F, a 1987 PA42-1000. 0000052081 00000 n The reason for this In acknowledgement of the original faults (too powerful engines making the aircraft less stable longitudinally- dont worry Piper had a stability augmentation system fix for this but its important to be aware of in a high angle of attack situation, such as during takeoff or go-around), the I was given less powerful, 500-shp PT6A-11 engines, and the aft CG limit was brought 2 inches forward. 0000144133 00000 n -n!Zf`Wb | 9jL+_.6b|*3CY>D{}cLtGc"N%%y,IgR?/Mp6e>oBN)RLsSp#fS-4[4TkH-%K]u*[44Y#n He writes that his facility currently supports about 20 Cheyennes along with a number of other turboprops. 0 t Think it would meet your range requirements. 8 answers and 5413 views Jun 15 2004. The PA-31T finally was certified in May 1972. The extra power had a destabilizing effect, and the lower weight led to aft-cg problems. 0000013855 00000 n 0000052341 00000 n PIPER CHEYENNE Aircraft For Sale - 14 Listings | Controller.com However, this doesnt mean it is simple. Pete Bedell is a pilot for a major airline and co-owner of a Cessna 172 and Beechcraft Baron D55. The pitch instability also becomes a problem in holding patterns at reduced airspeeds between 12,000 and 16,000 feet. 0000022670 00000 n PIPER 400LS. The aircraft has a maximum operating altitude of 31,000', a normal cruise speed of 260 KTS/299 MPH, and a 928 NM/1,068 SM seats-full range. Owner Comments My company has flown a 1983 Cheyenne I for two years now and we have over 900 hours on it. Believe it or not, it felt good; I felt I was being a good steward of the airplane. The longitudinal stability characteristics and the SAS were fully covered in the November 1, 1981 issue of The Aviation Consumer. And archaic autopilots can represent in-flight hazards if they are not meticulously maintained and rigged. Below FL 180, the aircraft tends to become more stable, but the phugoid instability is still obvious, and with each oscillation it becomes worse. claim might be true. They made 620 shp, and therein lay a problem. Dubbed the T-1040, it was developed as part of Pipers air taxi/commuter marketing effort and certified in 1982. 0000107367 00000 n Pressure differential is 5.5 psi for all three versions. With the Cheyenne, on the other hand, we have had no downtime for maintenance whatsoever, except for the regular scheduled inspections. We looked the records for a representative five-year period, during which a total of 187 service difficulty reports (SDRs) were submitted on the PA-31T series, including the PA-31T3/T-1040. 0000096310 00000 n After completing the CAPTCHA below, you will immediately regain access to the site again. 1 answers and 1796 views Feb 23 2020. 0000007543 00000 n This airplane is certified in the normal category. I wound up in a Conquest II, s/n 155 so there arent a lot of those either but there are a lot more than the Cheyenne. been approved for five bladed scimitar propellers from Hartzell, which My boss did the same: I wanted the King Air, but it was too costly then. Pipers Cheyenne 400LS is one of those rare airplanes that has few compromises. It frequently and for no reason pops the circuit breaker, usually at FL 250 or higher, so that it becomes a trifle brisk in the cabin. 0000008359 00000 n Original PA-31T How do I know well get any of this money back, she asks. Cockpit organization and cockpit lighting also were improved. Uploaded: 2022-07-05. The T-tail towers over the package to balance out the huge props. Please contact Mike Shafer (315) 415-0401. 0000052743 00000 n With the I or IA, one gets relative simplicity and ease of operation. less runway, climbs and cruises faster than many pure jets. Ive also had correspondence with Ed Black of Blackhawk. The Cheyenne II came equipped with a total of eight seats, and in my opinion it should not have been equipped with the eighth-the rearmost seat. ). In the former category there are several variations to pick from, and the subtleties can keep you awake at night. 0000042969 00000 n 0000052368 00000 n There is no SAS or other device required on the I/IA or IIXL. maximum 30 percent power setting becomes apparent from reading the last page @ (o$y=.d;n0 Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by NadJ, Aug 9, 2021. 0000013091 00000 n 1985 Piper Cheyenne 400LS airplane for sale located in San Jose, California. is to then power up to 30 percent torque against the brakes. Your email address will not be published. 0000093845 00000 n The Cheyenne I was certified in March, 1978. 0000006052 00000 n Piper PA-42-1000 PA-42-1000 (Cheyenne 400LS) Engine: Honeywell TPE331-14A/B A Division of World's Largest MT-Propeller Distributor To learn more about this prop 866-717-1117 www. No one seems to be able to explain the reason. Even at that, parts are an issue for me. AGREE! 0000158131 00000 n in other turboprops. little doubt that Piper's PA-42 Cheyenne 400LS is the hot rod of the The record shows that, when it comes to safely stepping up to turboprops, there is simply no substitute for a regimen of structured recurrent training.
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